Martial artists spend years learning how to fall before they learn much of anything else. The rest of us just brace, then wonder why the landing does so much damage.

This is a best-of conversation, first aired in 2023, and it has only gotten more useful with time.

Mark Nepo is a poet and spiritual teacher who has been working in poetry and spirituality for more than fifty years. His book The Book of Awakening was a #1 New York Times bestseller, he has written twenty-six books translated into more than twenty languages, and he was named one of Oprah's SuperSoul 100. In his thirties, he was diagnosed with a rare form of lymphoma, and that experience runs underneath everything he writes about adversity, grief, and what it costs to stay open. He wrote Falling Down and Getting Up when his cancer years came flooding back during the pandemic. Since this conversation first aired, Mark has published The Fifth Season: Creativity in the Second Half of Life.

What you'll explore in this conversation:

Why aikido teaches students how to fall before anything else, and what that translates to when the fall is emotional rather than physical
The journal question Mark asks people in circle that tends to surface, fast, whose voice you have actually been living under
What a friend in the depths of grief told him about "the life after tears," and the line that separates it from everything that came before
The difference between grounding and chasing, and the small reorientation that changes where you go looking for a life
What happened in a bar after the Iraq war that taught him how to feel for pain he had never lived through

If you are somewhere in the middle of a fall, or still carrying one that never quite finished, this conversation offers you something steadier than advice: company, and a way to keep going that doesn't ask you to pretend you're fine.

You can find Mark at: Website | Instagram | Episode Transcript

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Good Life Project

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